From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 10 09:34:44 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3ADYi8Z012375 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from front3.acsu.buffalo.edu (warmfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.6.88]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l3ADYaKH066199 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24894 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 13:27:55 -0000 Received: from mailscan1.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.133) by front3.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:27:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 27760 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 13:27:50 -0000 Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.57) by front1.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:27:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 13068 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 13:27:39 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:27:39 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 4496228 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:27:39 -0400 Delivered-To: cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 26216 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from mailscan4.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.136) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 29178 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.buffalo.edu (128.205.32.14) by smtp5.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (rapaport@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3ADRcGV011828 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rapaport@localhost) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.9/Submit) id l3ADRcGQ011827 for cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-PM-EL-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: <200704101327.l3ADRcGQ011827@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:27:38 -0400 Reply-To: "William J. Rapaport" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: COMPUTER DECISIONS To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/3061/Tue Apr 10 07:56:50 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 926 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: COMPUTER DECISIONS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:12:27 -0400 | From: rhmistry@buffalo.edu | | Hello, | With regards to today's discussion, I remembered I-Robot(film) based on | Isaac Asimov's story. | | When there was a decision to be made by a robot, | The robot had the chance to save the detective(hero) or a small | child,the robot choses hero since he had a better statistical chance of | survival( and usefulness to the society), a decision the hero and most | of the peole would have disagreed upon. | | And the hero remains displeased with this decision of the robot, as he | considers himself guilty for not being able to save the kid's life. | | What should be interpreted from this story? Should we trust their decisions? | | Regards, | Romanch H. Mistry From mprentice@gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:37:07 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3AEb60b017345 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.235]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l3AEb1v3071414 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m22so1339930nzf for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=CJ9tK+Sr1o+WOghf3o1nTHHT3TTPahQLddbrsdbTlYHMDmXD24HnNiCA+vBsXpF1Y/XchtC2NaGoDqDg0D6pVy/0/dNzjLQJqAbBQ/+TUFYQH8p5mEW8uZ8ZLOdrqPOTX3WXq+wJwZx0bdM+hM7debO+vokuthXbIxfu7wi1YG4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Jxw4wbT1CAVcWdHf8nNfH1CqTQm20JeEsz/Sq/QzKt2/LVrow9rrhJfjsE9BOmrMoccHMFBwoTf1ZEijzWuviUL4POnBt5H7ewRVQ9K6apokpCZSC0HYZYFCIrioRf45NDnxBmltqtamF8dkRkF+BilQx70wMlJxMm/+WAK3faQ= Received: by 10.114.161.11 with SMTP id j11mr2805086wae.1176215821045; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.95.3 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:37:00 -0400 From: "Mike Prentice" Sender: mprentice@gmail.com To: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: Re: COMPUTER DECISIONS Cc: CSE584-SP07-LIST@listserv.buffalo.edu In-Reply-To: <200704101327.l3ADRcGQ011827@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200704101327.l3ADRcGQ011827@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3a5a771fbf0983b7 X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/3061/Tue Apr 10 07:56:50 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 1656 Realistically, we would probably build a strong bias into the robot's programming to save children first, but it was an interesting problem. Although, if AI evolves to the point where machine intelligences program themselves, who knows what criteria and heuristics they'll use? In Asimov's stories when robots were faced with this kind of choice they usually shut down after saving one of the humans, their psyches destroyed in much the same way a fragile human's would be. (The movie I, Robot was loosely based on Asimov's ideas, but shares no resemblance to any of his actual plots or characters.) -- Mike Prentice On 4/10/07, William J. Rapaport wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Subject: COMPUTER DECISIONS > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > | Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:12:27 -0400 > | From: rhmistry@buffalo.edu > | > | Hello, > | With regards to today's discussion, I remembered I-Robot(film) based on > | Isaac Asimov's story. > | > | When there was a decision to be made by a robot, > | The robot had the chance to save the detective(hero) or a small > | child,the robot choses hero since he had a better statistical chance of > | survival( and usefulness to the society), a decision the hero and most > | of the peole would have disagreed upon. > | > | And the hero remains displeased with this decision of the robot, as he > | considers himself guilty for not being able to save the kid's life. > | > | What should be interpreted from this story? Should we trust their decisions? > | > | Regards, > | Romanch H. Mistry > From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 10 10:44:05 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3AEi5KG017805 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from front1.acsu.buffalo.edu (coldfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.6.89]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l3AEheLo071861 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7826 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 14:43:40 -0000 Received: from mailscan7.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.158) by front1.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 15687 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 14:43:40 -0000 Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.57) by front3.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29676 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 4499081 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:43:27 -0400 Delivered-To: cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 15062 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: from mailscan6.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.95) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 2312 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.buffalo.edu (128.205.32.14) by smtp4.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:43:27 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (rapaport@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3AEhQZw017727 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rapaport@localhost) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.9/Submit) id l3AEhQ6J017726 for cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:43:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-PM-EL-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: <200704101443.l3AEhQ6J017726@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:43:26 -0400 Reply-To: "William J. Rapaport" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: Re: COMPUTER DECISIONS To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/3061/Tue Apr 10 07:56:50 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 444 Mike Prentice wrote: | From mprentice@gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:37:07 2007 | ... | In Asimov's stories when robots were faced with this kind of choice | they usually shut down after saving one of the humans, their psyches | destroyed in much the same way a fragile human's would be. I've put two articles on Asimov's Laws of Robotics on the Computer Ethics website, at: http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/584/S07/compethics.html#clarke9394 From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 10 15:23:20 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3AJNKdi008289 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from front2.acsu.buffalo.edu (upfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.4.140]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l3AJNAe0091300 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19975 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 19:23:09 -0000 Received: from mailscan1.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.133) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 19:23:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 10398 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 19:23:09 -0000 Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.57) by front3.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 19:23:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 3511 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 19:23:02 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 19:23:02 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 4514603 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:02 -0400 Delivered-To: cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 16314 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 19:23:01 -0000 Received: from mailscan8.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.55) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 19:23:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 27156 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2007 19:23:01 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.buffalo.edu (128.205.32.14) by smtp3.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 10 Apr 2007 19:23:01 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (rapaport@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l3AJN1rg008269 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rapaport@localhost) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.9/Submit) id l3AJN1Ln008268 for cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:01 -0400 (EDT) X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-PM-EL-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: <200704101923.l3AJN1Ln008268@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:23:01 -0400 Reply-To: "William J. Rapaport" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: COMPUTER DECISIONS AND MODELING To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1335; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/3064/Tue Apr 10 12:25:23 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 719 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: COMPUTER DECISIONS AND MODELING ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As long as we're on the topic of computer-based decisions, here's a whole slew of examples like Brian Cantwell Smith's example of the early warning system that confused the moon with a missile, only these resulted in real death and destruction: Neumann, Peter G. (1993), "Modeling and Simulation", Communications of the ACM 36(4) (June): 124. http://portal.acm.org/ft_gateway.cfm?id=163293&type=pdf&coll=ACM&dl=ACM&CFID=19590757&CFTOKEN=96767206 or: http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/Papers/Papers.by.Others/p124-neumann.pdf